BocelliOnline

[Melodie]

**TIME OUT**

If you go on discussing how you're going to discuss the book, you'll never get around to discussing it. :roll eyes Please go to your corners and think about this approach:

Use the published English version of the book as the BASIS of discussion, because that's all most of us have. If Winnie - or anyone else - has done a translation of the Italian version and would like to include their translation as part of their comments, they're free to do so.

EXAMPLE:
Pg. 11, para. 4 - According to the English translation, Spot had four paws.

Pg. 11, para. 4 - According to my translation from the Italian, Spot had four dirty paws.

[Winnie]

I'd already left the ring (being rather surprised to find myself in it in the first place), but thanks, Melodie! I apologize for not jumping out of the ring sooner.

To get things started, does anyone have any thoughts about the chapter that describes the funeral service for "Ettore" (ch. 32 in the U.S. edition)--particularly about the speech that "Amos" would have liked to make if he'd had the chance?

Winnie

Note added 12/4: I’m sorry for being defensive in this thread yesterday and acting on the misguided notion that I should defend myself against some perceived attack. I should have kept my mouth (keyboard) closed. I regret taking everyone's time.

Winnie

[Willma]

I don't know why my position is controversial or why it is causing so much discussion - a simple ground rule - accept the English version as definitive. It was published and paid for by Bocelli interests. If we are discussing something, and others jump in - and not necessarily Winnie - saying to the effect - "Well, it could mean this or that or I think he meant to say this or it seems most likely that this is a better interpretation; that's not really the right word; this is the right word, and boy, does that ever change the meaning .... and on and on..... there will be so much shifting back and forth, so much static, as to render discussion meaningless.

You have to start with a consensus - THIS IS WHAT HE SAID - then followed by the discussion - WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT HE SAID. "What he said" is what appears on the page of my English version until Andrea says otherwise.
_________________
Although, in his life, he was often called the imbecile from Illinois, history has proven otherwise.

[Willma]

Winnie, I think this is an excellent place to start!

The frustration that Andrea is experiencing at this moment, sitting in the pew, participating in traditional rituals, listening to the priest speak of Ettore, is something, I believe, we have all experienced when confronting the loss of a dear friend or family member. It is impersonal, and of all moments in life, this is one that should not be impersonal. Those who truly love a person in life should now speak for them in death. At this painful moment, anything less is artificial, if not, insulting. Charles Dicken’s understood this painful urgency. Scourge, when being led about by the Ghost of Christmas Future, stumbles upon his own grave. Terrified and confused, he demands to be taken to those who can express “a depth of feeling” in regard to “this man’s passing” as if this depth of feeling is the only thing left to counter the terror and the triumph of the grave.

Andrea feels that he is that person for Ettore, yet he remains silent. So why does he remain silent? After all, he says: “his heart was filled with courage that makes men launch themselves into the fray of the battle, disdainful of the tremendous risk that awaits them.” But, before he could get up and approach the altar, his reverie was broken my a familiar song and the moment passed. I think the song was an excuse. We all lack courage at these moments. The courage in our hearts never shines forth in our actions. Andrea, like any of us would be, is filled with self-loathing and disappears into the crowd, just one more “outsider”.

Another point - I think Andrea, in this passage, tries to convince himself and us, that death will not triumph if we hold fast to this belief: “ the only thing that is important in that the idea of what was remain intact, that part of him that is in us is preserved.” I believe this to be true. For me, it is the only definition of immortaility that is definitely attainable. When we are close to the actual death of a person, it is overwhelming but as time passes, the life of that person becomes more important, more prevailing in our thoughts. In this way, their spirit lives on. “Death be not proud!”
_________________
Although, in his life, he was often called the imbecile from Illinois, history has proven otherwise.

[Willma]

I apologize for misspelling the name of Scrooge, one of my most favorite people of all times.
_________________
Although, in his life, he was often called the imbecile from Illinois, history has proven otherwise.

[Winnie]

Time, the relentless moving on of events, removes Amos’s opportunity to speak of both time and timelessness, of loss of the man Ettore and continuation of his gifts to others—his wisdom and example.

As Andrea’s words in this chapter suggest, all those who have ever lived are with us now. Their being has touched and changed the earth and the experience of being human. Loss is both illusion and the most intense pain.

Andrea’s frequent use in his book of visual imagery is notable. The final image of the chapter—the graveyard “shaded by the dark green cypresses of his beautiful Tuscany”—leaves Ettore within a scene ultimately beyond the reach of time, if not of change.

The end of the Pablo Neruda poem “I Will Come Back” comes to mind: “here I shall be both lost and found / here I shall be perhaps both stone and silence.”

Winnie

[JustLaura]

Winnie, before we get too far into the book discussion, I wanted to ask if you thought that there was any point in obtaining the British or the Australian versions of the book? Both happen to be up on eBay at this time, and it made me curious. My Italian version is on its way from the Internet Book Store; I knew that I wanted that, for sure.

Thanks,
Laura

[Winnie]