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 Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:39 am Post subject: La Musica del Silenzio |
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| With some newer fans reading Andrea's book for the first time, I think it would be interesting to start a discussion of anything in the book that we find of interest. Those who have read it many times could add a great deal to this. It's such a revealing work...and BocelliOnline has THE best discussions of such things. Who goes first?...Come on Willma!! |
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Willma
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 863
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:32 am Post subject: |
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Well, guest, first of all, who are you?
I think it would be very rewarding to have meaningful discussions based on this book. Some topics that come to mind would be 1) the effect of blindness on his personality; 2) His opinions concerning his own talent relative to others; 3) His view of women; 4) His view of his public; 5) His personal morality; 5) His responsibility toward his family and toward his marriage etc. Sometimes the smallest phrase is the most telling.
But in order to have a meaningful discussion, we must accept the English translation as sufficiently accurate as to draw valid conclusions and/or positions.
However, I enjoyed reading this book so much, I just wouldn't know where to begin. Remember that old game - Pick-Up-Stix? Well, that's how I feel about this. What do you touch first?
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Although, in his life, he was often called the imbecile from Illinois, history has proven otherwise. |
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Winnie
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 133
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Willma wrote: | | But in order to have a meaningful discussion, we must accept the English translation as sufficiently accurate as to draw valid conclusions and/or positions. |
Okay--but I'll reserve the opportunity to compare the Italian and the English. At some points the differences are significant. If I say in my memoir, "I felt warm and loved in his company," and the statement is translated into another language as, "I was burning with desire," it's not fair to judge me on the basis of that second statement. A few of the differences between the Italian and English versions of Andrea's book are not much less dramatic.
I'd also like to mention how often we misunderstand each other on this forum. It seems to me that we also can't assume we have the absolute one-and-only correct analysis of Andrea's words.
Winnie |
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Willma
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 863
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Winnie wrote: | Okay--but I'll reserve the opportunity to compare the Italian and the English. At some points the differences are significant.
Winnie |
I think there is going to be difficulty in this approach because I do not recognized your credentials as a translator. It appears more credible to me if we all rely on the translator who was hired for the job as opposed to signing on to the translator of our own choosing.
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Although, in his life, he was often called the imbecile from Illinois, history has proven otherwise. |
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Melodie
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Joined: 01 Mar 2003
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Location: Massachusetts
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Winnie
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 133
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Willma wrote: | | Winnie wrote: | Okay--but I'll reserve the opportunity to compare the Italian and the English. At some points the differences are significant.
Winnie |
I think there is going to be difficulty in this approach because I do not recognized your credentials as a translator. It appears more credible to me if we all rely on the translator who was hired for the job as opposed to signing on to the translator of our own choosing. |
Why does my interpretation of what the Italian means have less value than anyone's interpretation of what the psychological meaning of the words is?
I haven't always been happy, in retrospect, with what I've said on this forum or others, although as I believe is the case for all the regulars here, I've tried to be honest and sincere and have not intended to attack any individual, only to refute the ideas with which I disagree.
I've also never until now felt personally attacked. I just simply don't understand why you've said this to me. Why are my credentials necessarily less valid than the official translator's? Or those of any of the other translators who help us understand Andrea's words? Do you know what my credentials are? Do I have to include my resume in order to voice an opinion here?
I may or may not be 100 percent correct in my translation of Andrea’s words. But why don’t I have the right to express my opinion if I think the English misrepresents Andrea’s words at some points?
In La musica del silenzio, Andrea writes, "The truth was that he could not stomach the idea that a non-seeing person must necessarily become a masseur, a switchboard operator, or, as his destiny seemed to expect from him, a musician" (98). The Music of Silence reverses the meaning by presenting the passage this way (Uk edition wording): "The truth was that he could not accept that a blind person could not be a masseur, say, or a telephone operator, or even a musician" (87, UK edition).
In La musica del silenzio, Andrea writes, "But in the quiet of his house Amos found the right atmosphere to reflect. He felt that things could not have gone exactly as Marica had recounted them to him. Nevertheless, he thought, 'Calmness is the virtue of the strong. Time is a gentleman and, sooner or later, the truth will come out. It is enough to accept things with calmness.' Then he dedicated himself completely to his thesis" (173. The Music of Silence oversimplifies the passage this way: "But when she had left, Amos had the opportunity to reflect, and he knew that things could not have been as Marica said they were. 'The truth will out,' he thought, and threw himself head first into his thesis" (149).
In La musica del silenzio, Andrea writes, "Amos raved this way, encouraged by the companionship of his dearest friend and a little aroused by the wine" (224). The Music of Silence changes the tone and connotation by presenting the passage this way: "Amos was thus raving, drunk and emotional" (196).
Most of the time, the English editions are great for reading and as a basis of an interesting discussion. If Andrea is going to be pigeonholed, however, as being absolutely thus and so, we'd better at least know what he really said. (It would be great, though, if the discussion could avoid absolute diagnoses of perceived character flaws.)
Winnie |
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guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| As most people will be more familiar with the English version of the book, then that could be used as a basis for the discussion. I have read the Italian version and Winnie's translation is very accurate, and I see no harm in Winnie bringing more clarity to any topic if it is more accurate in the Italian version. The Italian version has some things that were left out of the English version and obviously captures Andrea's "voice" in it's style. It is beautiful, very different in tone, and much more poetic in it's language than the English version. Andrea's story and his thoughts are so fascinating that they provide a starting point for some great....and honest!... discussion. |
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Willma
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 863
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| Winnie wrote: |
Why does my interpretation of what the Italian means have less value than anyone's interpretation of what the psychological meaning of the words is?
Winnie |
You are comparing apples and oranges. First - apples to apples. You must compare any translator ( yourself or others) to this translator. I think it is most logical to accept this person whose credentials landed them the job of translating the book as opposed to anyone else. This should be the definitive statement because if we drift from this, we will never reach a consensus on what is written and discussion will be meaningless.
Aside from this basic logic, I feel a translator should not have to work with a dictionary in hand. That is more like decipering a code as opposed to discovering comparable meaning. Language is a living thing. A professional translater should be able to easily read one living language and convert it to another, as interpretors do, standing next to someone in an interview. You don't see these people"looking things up".
We do not have here - at least to my knowledge - an opportunity to compare oranges and oranges - psychologist to psychologist. I am here not as a working professional, gainfully employed. No one is paying me for my advice or my time. I am here only as a Bocelli fan. If you don't agree with what I say, if you can't relate it to your own life experience, dismiss it as you would comments from anyone else
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Although, in his life, he was often called the imbecile from Illinois, history has proven otherwise. |
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Willma
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 863
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:13 am Post subject: |
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P.S. I believe that people who continue to contribute to a discussion should have the courtesy of introducing themselves so, if you chose to post again, Guest, please introduce yourself.
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Willma
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
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Location: Boston
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| guest wrote: | | I have read the Italian version and Winnie's translation is very accurate, and I see no harm in Winnie bringing more clarity to any topic if it is more accurate in the Italian version. |
More accurate? More clarity? What credentialed person is making this determination. None that I am aware of.
Diverting from the path of the official translation is getting into quicksand.
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Winnie
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 133
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| Willma wrote: | | Winnie wrote: |
Why does my interpretation of what the Italian means have less value than anyone's interpretation of what the psychological meaning of the words is?
Winnie |
You are comparing apples and oranges. First - apples to apples. You must compare any translator ( yourself or others) to this translator. I think it is most logical to accept this person whose credentials landed them the job of translating the book as opposed to anyone else. This should be the definitive statement because if we drift from this, we will never reach a consensus on what is written and discussion will be meaningless.
Aside from this basic logic, I feel a translator should not have to work with a dictionary in hand. That is more like decipering a code as opposed to discovering comparable meaning. Language is a living thing. A professional translater should be able to easily read one living language and convert it to another, as interpretors do, standing next to someone in an interview. You don't see these people"looking things up".
We do not have here - at least to my knowledge - an opportunity to compare oranges and oranges - psychologist to psychologist. I am here not as a working professional, gainfully employed. No one is paying me for my advice or my time. I am here only as a Bocelli fan. If you don't agree with what I say, if you can't relate it to your own life experience, dismiss it as you would comments from anyone else |
In discussions of the book, I'll just go ahead and say what I think. You can ignore it or not.
"Translator" and "interpreter" are not synonymous.
Not knowing me or much about me, you are not in a position to know how I translate, nor are you in a position to judge the quality of my Italian, my background as it is relevant to understanding Andrea's book, my literary skills, or my ability to convey someone else's thoughts fairly and fully.
I don't have a right to launch a verbal attack against you or anyone, but I do have a right to give my opinions without having someone with no more authority than mine tell me what these opinions can or cannot cover--assuming they're within the framework and rules of this forum.
Winnie |
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Signora Innamorata
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 1558
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:53 am Post subject: |
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As usual, you have so much grace, Winnie.
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jean
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 86
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:46 am Post subject: |
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In my experience, I found some who have the best "credentials" to be the least credible! A sign on a door that has a name with many letters behind it and a title beneath it does not mean that is what you are going to find behind that door! For me, I appreciate and seek those with an innate humanness and wisdom and a spirit that encompasses and honors others. Of course, in a matter of life or death credentials are necessary to a certain extent (a surgeon, for example), and yet the "bedside" manner is equally important in the healing process. For instance, those in the healing business who deride and disparage their clients or patients behind their backs...big deal about the piece of paper framed and hanging on their wall! The BETTER attributes of human nature, heart and soul, are not bought with dollars and cents! So to place this in the frame of this discussion, because a person is "credentialed" does not mean that his/her interpretation is to be accepted and all other interpretations are to be dismissed. He was just the person who was hired to do a translation...that does not mean his words are the end all! It is much more fun to discuss this from each other's ideas and viewpoints and research...than a "this is what the translator said, so that's it!" Jeanie
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Willma
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
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Location: Boston
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Winnie wrote: |
Not knowing me or much about me, you are not in a position to know how I translate, nor are you in a position to judge the quality of my Italian, my background as it is relevant to understanding Andrea's book, my literary skills, or my ability to convey someone else's thoughts fairly and fully.
Winnie |
This is exactly my point - I am in no position to judge the quality of your work - so I cannot accept your translation as accurate or even in the ball park.
The only logical approach, therefore, is to accept the translation of the individual chosen by Andrea or by those who represent him, as the definitive interpretation of what Andrea said in his native language.
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Although, in his life, he was often called the imbecile from Illinois, history has proven otherwise. |
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Winnie
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 133
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| Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Willma wrote: | | The only logical approach, therefore, is to accept the translation of the individual chosen by Andrea or by those who represent him, as the definitive interpretation of what Andrea said in his native language. |
My view of the situation is not the same as yours. I'm sure my chance of changing your view is zero. And your chance of changing mine is also zero in this case. You will do what you think is right, and I’ll do what I think is right.
Have a good weekend, everyone!
Winnie |
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